Future XFL markets/expansion

[XFLGUY]

Why would Toronto or Canadians in general accept an XFL team but be opposed to NFL expansion there? Anytime the NFL is brought up its seems like there is a collective shudder that takes place and we get the usual drivel about how it'll hurt the CFL and of course how Toronto is a Buffalo Bills market. I guess I just don't understand why they'd be willing to accept the XFL, but not the NFL?

[Tank55]

I guess I would dispute the premise -- I think most sports fans in Toronto would be thrilled to get an NFL team.

More generally, the XFL isn't an immediate existential threat to the CFL in the way the NFL would be (which is why the NFL hasn't moved in). CFL purists will turn up their noses (as will many American fans in the current cities), but Toronto is a major market. You don't need everyone.

[johnnyangryfuzzball]

We've been through this before, but I firmly believe Toronto will receive serious consideration at some point. McMahon is comfortable working in Canada; Toronto was on the short list in 2001. Completely hinges on being able to get into the SkyDome, where the Blue Jays owners just kicked out the Argonauts, but the XFL season is shorter and involves less overlap with MLB. Opening up Canada as a television market creates added value in a way that San Antonio, for example, does not.

As I've noted before... Toronto's a tough sell. The Argonauts have the worst attendance in the CFL, the Bills didn't have great attendance when they played there, it adds nothing to the U.S. TV package, and Canadian culture's a lot different: football's a distant second to hockey there. (But the idea of Alpha investing into an XHL... that would be interesting, as unlikely as it may seem.)

If we're looking at Canada, I would honestly go for Montreal before Toronto. Ideal stadium (and to think they could actually make that Olympic Stadium useful!), historically a little better at supporting football at least since the 1990s, no NBA team to deal with, and connects right to New York via I-87 for an instant rivalry.

[Regular Joe]

/quote]

I have serious doubts that Chicago is going to do well in the XFL.

I worry about attendance in cold weather cities in Feb & March. What looks great on television, might not be a great draw for teams trying to establish themselves. Hopefully they stagger the schedule so teams like NY play at Houston & LA the first week or two, but honestly it can snow in NY in April..

[Regular Joe]

(But the idea of Alpha investing into an XHL... that would be interesting, as unlikely as it may seem.)

I thought Alpha might include MMA since Vince could capitalize on his WWE guys who seem to wasn't to fight MMA, and it fits right into Vince's portfolio.

[Regular Joe]

(But the idea of Alpha investing into an XHL... that would be interesting, as unlikely as it may seem.)

I thought Alpha might include MMA since Vince could capitalize on his WWE guys who seem to wasn't to fight MMA, and it fits right into Vince's portfolio.

Ugh!! Quote codes!! I thought MMA....

[GoDogs]

These threads are always fun to read because everyone one has solid opinions from all different types of viewpoints.

You can’t exclude any type of stadiums in these discussions. The prevailing thought is to get into a smaller venue for esthetic and other purposes.

Look at the markets and the stadiums that the XFL chose. Mind you the markets were specifically chosen to avoid existing teams in AAF cities.

The current XFL teams are set to play in NFL, College, MLS and even a baseball stadium. So I would look at all those possibilities for any potential market. Not just a soccer style stadium that seats 25k. Nothing wrong with that either. Looking forward to how the games look at Audi Field and the renovated Globe Life.

I like TDECU from a business standpoint. Kind of a middle ground. It’s not massive and it’s not small. You don’t want to limit the amount of money you can make. If you can find a venue that seats in that 40 to 50k range. That’s perfect. There’s nothing wrong with drawing 30k plus in a 60k stadium. Especially when it comes to making money. With 20k stadiums. You cap yourself out and limit how much money you can make. So I prefer a middle ground.

(Not sure if this requires a different thread or not)

If expansion becomes a possibility, and the league thrives in the next few years, does McMahon expand a few teams at a time on his own, or does he open up his league with other “partners” growing the league quickly.

I could see NFL team owners (ie Jerry Jones as he liked the first version ) investing in a team, to develop players.

We kind of know how the USFL worked out, but this would be Mr. McMahon’s league (a league with more attention to detail).

Thoughts?

[MikeMitchell]

These threads are always fun to read because everyone one has solid opinions from all different types of viewpoints.

You can’t exclude any type of stadiums in these discussions. The prevailing thought is to get into a smaller venue for esthetic and other purposes.

Look at the markets and the stadiums that the XFL chose. Mind you the markets were specifically chosen to avoid existing teams in AAF cities.

The current XFL teams are set to play in NFL, College, MLS and even a baseball stadium. So I would look at all those possibilities for any potential market. Not just a soccer style stadium that seats 25k. Nothing wrong with that either. Looking forward to how the games look at Audi Field and the renovated Globe Life.

I like TDECU from a business standpoint. Kind of a middle ground. It’s not massive and it’s not small. You don’t want to limit the amount of money you can make. If you can find a venue that seats in that 40 to 50k range. That’s perfect. There’s nothing wrong with drawing 30k plus in a 60k stadium. Especially when it comes to making money. With 20k stadiums. You cap yourself out and limit how much money you can make. So I prefer a middle ground.

(Not sure if this requires a different thread or not)

If expansion becomes a possibility, and the league thrives in the next few years, does McMahon expand a few teams at a time on his own, or does he open up his league with other “partners” growing the league quickly.

I could see NFL team owners (ie Jerry Jones as he liked the first version ) investing in a team, to develop players.

We kind of know how the USFL worked out, but this would be Mr. McMahon’s league (a league with more attention to detail).

Thoughts?

Good questions GoDogs..

I think the league wants to get to a point where they sell off franchises. That's probably the long term goal. A kind of MLS model. I would say that's the next TV contract goal. The league is a bunch of "What Ifs?". If it's a success. . With Oliver Luck at the helm. He knows exactly how to approach that stage if they get there. The league could expand before any ownership comes on board. Build up the brands and league first. Then sell them but only to people who are reliable and that you can trust. No Reggie Fowlers. Even ownership groups are possible when selling franchises.

Jerry Jones does have a lot of respect for Vince McMahon. A lot of the NFL owners and businessmen respect him immensely. His work ethic is off the charts and his success speaks for itself. I could see Jerry getting on board in the future in some capacity.

The USFL and UFL tried the early ownership model and the problem with that, is you need owners you can trust. The USFL had owners that couldn't even pay their players or bills. Whole teams were being relocated and even swapped from city to city. It was a mess. McMahon is willing to bleed money. Most owners don't have that dedication. (See Dundon). Sometimes they don't even have the money to burn. When push comes to shove. Their 'net worth' gets tested. The UFL had the same issues. One big time owner in Hambrecht but a bunch of flimsy owners like Nancy Pelosi's husband. It got so bad that teams couldn't even afford to feed their players or even have the basics like athletic tape.

The USFL was a case of too big too soon. They tried to expand too rapidly and most of their franchises were falling apart and bleeding money. They didn't have enough good owners. The league as a whole wasn't very disciplined. The UFL did a soft launch and had grand ideas but couldn't ever get solid footing. Relocating franchises, retracting them, unreliable ownership groups, poor structure and marketing. It was a mess. You can't grow unless you plant the right seeds first.

I think expansion is on the table but it's contingent upon on the fans. If the league is a success in 2020. A lot of good things will come. The player quality will get better. More tickets will be sold. More sponsors will come on board. The league might actually get a video game with 2K sports. Cities will want XFL teams. These are all contingent on the 'Big If". The league has to have support and be successful first. It doesn't have to be a smashing success but enough where the arrow is pointed upwards.

[MikeMitchell]

Good post youngorst. I like all of your ideas. 16 is the ultimate number, I think for teams in the league. I pray that it happens. That means that the XFL is off and running. I have lived and died with so many of these leagues. So I am hoping that this is the one.

[GregParks]

I know I've said this before, but I don't see expansion coming before the next TV deal. Vince McMahon has earmarked $500 million for three years, which would have to increase substantially if adding more teams, paying more personnel, paying more players, etc. The league isn't going to be making any significant money back until the three years are up and they negotiate a new TV deal. That's where the money is going to be for this league. Consider the first three years prove-it years. I guess Vince could always decide to put more money into the project to pay for the new franchises, but $500 million for three years as it is, with ten teams, is no drop in the bucket even for a billionaire.