Has Attendance helped TV viewership?

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4th&long
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Has Attendance helped TV viewership?

Post by 4th&long »

I've been saying this from the beginning, the relationship of attendance to viewership is wayyyyy over stated. We now have 6 weeks of XFL 2023 and full year of USFL 2022.

Based on the TV results - its not helping.

I will say it likely gets local fans more engaged into the league/team, but national viewership the impact appears marginal at best.
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johnnyangryfuzzball
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Re: Has Attendance helped TV viewership?

Post by johnnyangryfuzzball »

Seriously?

Fox Sports, a national TV network, just abandoned the idea of playing all of the USFL's games in one city knowing full well that it was hurting viewership to have completely empty stadiums. They would know as much as anyone.

The XFL didn't go from 3 million to 180,000 the way the USFL did last year. In fact, network-to-network, time slot to time slot, it's largely been pretty consistent. FX is proving to be a better partner than FS1 or USA, even with far worse time slots due to all the basketball championships, NHL, etc. and the USFL's deliberate subterfuge.

Besides, in most of these cities, attendance has been so sparse and poorly managed that there probably hasn't been enough of an attendance in those places to make much of a difference.
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Re: Has Attendance helped TV viewership?

Post by johnnyangryfuzzball »

In short, would there be much talking about the XFL if the beer snake were gone, if the Battlehawks played in an empty stadium in Arlington? I doubt it. Fan culture is a big part of what the XFL has done.

And if nobody cares about it, nobody watches.
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Re: Has Attendance helped TV viewership?

Post by laxtreme56 »

johnnyangryfuzzball wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:54 am In short, would there be much talking about the XFL if the beer snake were gone, if the Battlehawks played in an empty stadium in Arlington? I doubt it. Fan culture is a big part of what the XFL has done.

And if nobody cares about it, nobody watches.
Exactly this. The XFL trending on social media has just as much to do with the environment as much as the games being played. All we have to do is look back at the 2020 NFL season. Even with everyone locked at home ratings still fell, there's something hollow about watching games in an empty stadium.
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Re: Has Attendance helped TV viewership?

Post by Tank55 »

johnnyangryfuzzball wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:53 amBesides, in most of these cities, attendance has been so sparse and poorly managed that there probably hasn't been enough of an attendance in those places to make much of a difference.


Yep. I think a better question is "how much is attendance hurting TV viewership?"
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4th&long
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Re: Has Attendance helped TV viewership?

Post by 4th&long »

johnnyangryfuzzball wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:53 am Seriously?

Fox Sports, a national TV network, just abandoned the idea of playing all of the USFL's games in one city knowing full well that it was hurting viewership to have completely empty stadiums. They would know as much as anyone.

The XFL didn't go from 3 million to 180,000 the way the USFL did last year. In fact, network-to-network, time slot to time slot, it's largely been pretty consistent. FX is proving to be a better partner than FS1 or USA, even with far worse time slots due to all the basketball championships, NHL, etc. and the USFL's deliberate subterfuge.

Besides, in most of these cities, attendance has been so sparse and poorly managed that there probably hasn't been enough of an attendance in those places to make much of a difference.
Fox had that plan in place before the 2022 season. Its nothing new. They want to sell the teams off. Can't do that at a hub. Keep in mind USFL last year had flex scheduling with no scheduled times or dates announced until 7-14 days before game time. I'm glad they corrected for that.

I'm looking at the TV ratings... do you think the attendance at the games is really helping tv ratings with XFL 3.0's ratings 200k below USFL at this point?

The XFL went from 1.6mm to 230k, and that's in the winter which should have higher ratings, hence why team XFL is playing then.

Based on the Bold - it sounds like we are in agreement.
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Re: Has Attendance helped TV viewership?

Post by 4th&long »

laxtreme56 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:57 am
johnnyangryfuzzball wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:54 am In short, would there be much talking about the XFL if the beer snake were gone, if the Battlehawks played in an empty stadium in Arlington? I doubt it. Fan culture is a big part of what the XFL has done.

And if nobody cares about it, nobody watches.
Exactly this. The XFL trending on social media has just as much to do with the environment as much as the games being played. All we have to do is look back at the 2020 NFL season. Even with everyone locked at home ratings still fell, there's something hollow about watching games in an empty stadium.
The NFL 2020 season was also during a panic-demic and election year. Ratings were lower but in range. In fact about same as 2017/2018. At best you can say it had a marginal impact on NFL.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/289 ... ewers-usa/
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Re: Has Attendance helped TV viewership?

Post by johnnyangryfuzzball »

4th&long wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:26 am The NFL 2020 season was also during a panic-demic and election year. Ratings were lower but in range. In fact about same as 2017/2018. At best you can say it had a marginal impact on NFL.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/289 ... ewers-usa/
And that was with the networks and the league making the maximum effort to simulate an audience so that it wasn't so jarring to watch with no background sound like normal.

The fact that NFL ratings were down at all should be proof positive that attendance did, indeed, matter—because in 2020, television viewership went through the roof on account of there being nothing else to legally do in a lot of the country. (That said, you're talking about a much different beast in regard to the NFL, which has been around 100 years and is pretty much established, as opposed to an upstart league everyone is waiting to see when it fails.)
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Re: Has Attendance helped TV viewership?

Post by johnnyangryfuzzball »

4th&long wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:18 am Fox had that plan in place before the 2022 season. Its nothing new. They want to sell the teams off. Can't do that at a hub. Keep in mind USFL last year had flex scheduling with no scheduled times or dates announced until 7-14 days before game time. I'm glad they corrected for that.

I'm looking at the TV ratings... do you think the attendance at the games is really helping tv ratings with XFL 3.0's ratings 200k below USFL at this point?

The XFL went from 1.6mm to 230k, and that's in the winter which should have higher ratings, hence why team XFL is playing then.

Based on the Bold - it sounds like we are in agreement.
The original plan was two hubs, like TSL had in 2020. A situation where, again, the vast majority of games would have had no fans in attendance. Only later did Fox realize how bad of an idea that was in a post-pandemic setup and upped it to four (though only three in home markets). And they're still pawning off road teams as if they're representing New York City and Philadelphia.

And your claim that "200k below USFL at this point?" Excuse me? Are you looking at the same ratings I am? Are you just comparing Week 5 to Week 5 here? When Week 5 in the XFL was buried in 9:00 and 10:00 time slots on Thursday and Sunday nights with women's basketball and collegiate wrestling as lead-ins while Week 5 in the USFL was on network TV in weekend afternoon slots? Is that your dishonest frame of reference? Because if you compare apples to apples, let's take a look at that Week 5 XFL ratings against a comparable week midseason when the USFL was all on cable. There isn't one. The closest I could find was Week 7. Despite far better time slots, the USFL drew 230k, 270k, 830k (that was a Fox Sunday afternoon game—and remember, ABC drew over a million for its Saturday afternoon XFL game this past week) and zero. Yes, zero, because it was buried on Peacock. Week 10 was even worse, with only 650k for the broadcast game and that 180k number being the last regular season game on FS1. So the XFL is drawing the same or better in complete garbage time slots as the USFL drew last year in prime time slots. That should tell you something.

I don't know what you're trying to argue here. Is it that they should've just played all 40 games in Arlington? Do you honestly think that kind of setup would've been better for the league than the setup they have now?

I really don't see what you're trying to prove here. The USFL was also the first professional alt-football league since the pandemic. (TSL, of course, being amateur/pay-to-play.)

Look at the individual networks. USA started at 770k, landed in the 200k range by week 3. FS1—excluding that rain-delayed opening weekend—began at 420k, bottomed out at 180k. NBC started at 2.15M, by the next week it was down to 810k—and that's network TV! People tuned in week 1, saw the empty stands and all the games being in Birmingham, and wrote it off. They didn't do that anywhere near to that degree with the XFL.
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Re: Has Attendance helped TV viewership?

Post by 4th&long »

I'm not "arguing" anything, just pointing out that live attendance has minimal at best impact on TV viewership, as these last two season illustrate.

Also the USFL original plan wasn't 2 hubs year 2. They announced they'd have 2-4 hubs in year 2 before the championship 2022. Prior to 2022 season goal was yr 3-4 to get to all cities. Looking good so far.

Week 9 USFL 2022 had 3rd highest USA at 350k and 2nd highest FS1 at 389k. I hopeful the preset / preannounced game times and TV schedule over a month before the season begins gets better cable ratings than the flex date/time scheduling from 2022. That only had 7-14 day lead time. I think XFL was better with a preset sch. But that has little to due with my OP.
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