Vegas and Memphis

XFL Football discussion.
4th&long
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by 4th&long »

GDAWG wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:48 pm USFL is going to try to get all of its original teams it seems like, but one place they might not be able to go to is Oakland, unless they sign an agreement with the University of California for the Oakland Invaders to play there, since Cal is 15 minutes from Oakland, as compared to Santa Clara, which is 45 minutes from Oakland. It's also a conundrum the XFL might have if they ever decide to go into Oakland.

The University of California's issues with pro football (via Wikipedia)
The NFL's Oakland Raiders played their second game of the 1973 regular season at Memorial Stadium. The game against the defending Super Bowl champion Miami Dolphins was moved from the Raiders' regular home, the Oakland Coliseum, because of a scheduling conflict with the Oakland Athletics, who hosted the Minnesota Twins at the Coliseum the following night. The Raiders ended the Dolphins' NFL record 18-game winning streak with a 12–7 victory on four field goals by 45-year-old George Blanda on September 23. Several preseason games were also played at the stadium in the early 1970s.

Ultimately, in response to traffic and parking issues associated with these games (while Cal games drew a large number of students who live on or near campus and walk to the games, Raider games attracted fans from a larger geographic area who were used to tailgating at the Coliseum and were more likely to drive to games), the City of Berkeley passed a Professional Sports Events License Tax in which the city collected 10% of all gate receipts, making the staging of professional games inside the city cost-prohibitive. The Raiders were granted an injunction from the city collecting the tax, arguing that the tax was a regulatory measure rather than a revenue measure, and was therefore an improper regulation on land held in trust by the Regents of the University of California. However, the grant of the injunction was reversed by the California Court of Appeals, who found it to be a revenue measure, despite the fact that the city had made the measure immediately effective "due to danger to the public peace, health, and safety of the City of Berkeley as a result of the holding of professional sports events there.
Now, things likely have changed since 1973, especially when the stadium underwent renovations in 2010.
I don't see the USFL looking to California, too expensive
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johnnyangryfuzzball
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by johnnyangryfuzzball »

4th&long wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:21 pm I don't see the USFL looking to California, too expensive
Yeah, I think California is pretty much out of the question at this point for either the USFL or XFL. The UFL only did it because Nancy Pelosi's husband was the owner—even though Sacramento turned out to be a darn good market for them. AAF tried it, did OK, but their expenses were pretty high (they paid more than the Battlehawks pay in STL, with half the attendance). And XFL2.0 only did LA for the TV contract (which, as we see now, wasn't strictly necessary).

Gavin Newsom and the state legislature have made that state an extremely expensive place to do business. Silicon Valley may be willing to absorb that cost, but most other industries can't, and won't, especially if they're startups.
GDAWG
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by GDAWG »

With the XFL in Vegas, they are probably going to look at neighboring states (not California) in the future and if the USFL goes West, they will probably bring back the Denver Gold (although they should go to Salt Lake City) and the Arizona Outlaws (and base them in Tucson).
4th&long
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by 4th&long »

GDAWG wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:18 pm With the XFL in Vegas, they are probably going to look at neighboring states (not California) in the future and if the USFL goes West, they will probably bring back the Denver Gold (although they should go to Salt Lake City) and the Arizona Outlaws (and base them in Tucson).
SLC makes more sense with no MLB, NFL and NHL. Denver has added the Rockies since USFL 1.0.

AZ in Phoenix also a good option, large growing market depends on how the biz climate there goes.
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by GDAWG »

4th&long wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:32 pm
GDAWG wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:18 pm With the XFL in Vegas, they are probably going to look at neighboring states (not California) in the future and if the USFL goes West, they will probably bring back the Denver Gold (although they should go to Salt Lake City) and the Arizona Outlaws (and base them in Tucson).
SLC makes more sense with no MLB, NFL and NHL. Denver has added the Rockies since USFL 1.0.

AZ in Phoenix also a good option.
They need to not repeat the mistakes of the AAF in those places. In Salt Lake City, no AAF wordmarks and Salt Lake Stallions logos were allowed at Rice-Eccles Stadium. The USFL will want to make sure the USFL logos and team logos are on display at Rice Eccles Stadium or at the Real Salt Lake Stadium. That is if the USFL is open to new markets not involved with the original league, which doesn't seem like they want to do.
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by Gopher123 »

It amazes me how some continue to push SLC as a good option. They were terrible in the AAF. 8k-10k for home games, and they weren’t an overly enthusiastic group either. What is the draw here that I’m missing?

Now, Denver could be a hit. I mentioned in a thread way back around when the USFL was going to announce teams, (I think it was around that time anyway), that I thought that was a market worth pursuing. Fans heavily support the Broncos and did the Gold early on before poor business decisions drowned the team.

I’m not sure about bringing back the Arizona Wranglers either. Phoenix didn’t support the Hotshots much better, about 10k a game. Even less excuses here than SLC. Weather was better, and the Hotshots were more exciting to watch. SLC had a dismal offense while the Hotshots had Wolford throwing deep to Rocket Ross.
4th&long
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by 4th&long »

Gopher123 wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:56 am It amazes me how some continue to push SLC as a good option. They were terrible in the AAF. 8k-10k for home games, and they weren’t an overly enthusiastic group either. What is the draw here that I’m missing?

Now, Denver could be a hit. I mentioned in a thread way back around when the USFL was going to announce teams, (I think it was around that time anyway), that I thought that was a market worth pursuing. Fans heavily support the Broncos and did the Gold early on before poor business decisions drowned the team.

I’m not sure about bringing back the Arizona Wranglers either. Phoenix didn’t support the Hotshots much better, about 10k a game. Even less excuses here than SLC. Weather was better, and the Hotshots were more exciting to watch. SLC had a dismal offense while the Hotshots had Wolford throwing deep to Rocket Ross.
AAF was not run well, and some cities were late additions not properly promoted. SLC is a growing, well-off city.

Also AAF played Feb 8-April. Not exactly a good time to attend a game outdoors in SLC. With USFL April-June, muchhhh better. With no MLB or NHL its a much better option for USFL over XFL.

Having said that, if USFL is looking to avoid west, and exp travel, plus needing bigger markets... they likely will not look at SLC.
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by Tank55 »

The AAF did an especially bad job in SLC. Remember how the front office had to work out of a McDonalds? Branding the team with blue and then not being able to paint the red end zones?

I think there’s a tendency to put too much weight on the past performance of a team when grading a market for a future team. Just because the Demons drew in San Francisco doesn’t mean the Redwoods will. Just because the Federals flopped in DC doesn’t mean the Defenders will.

Is there a stadium fit? Is there a weather fit? Is there a market size fit? These are the key questions, regardless of how the last team performed.
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MGB01
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by MGB01 »

Gopher123 wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:56 am Now, Denver could be a hit. I mentioned in a thread way back around when the USFL was going to announce teams, (I think it was around that time anyway), that I thought that was a market worth pursuing. Fans heavily support the Broncos and did the Gold early on before poor business decisions drowned the team.
I'm sure it would, hell you'd get people in there just dying to see offense (get the right coach and run something like that double boot reverse that Kansas ran last night).

Plus I've mentioned it a couple times, but the ESPN piece (the fire was actually in March but the piece ran in April) actually ended up sort of helping the league. The reader no doubt came away thinking that Sunday's game was going to be cancelled, then looked at their TV listings and saw an actual real live football game on Sunday.......in April. I don't remember what the final numbers were for the Sunday games but they were at the very worst comparable to anything they had in that window the year before.

FOX and NBC had games most Sundays (eight?), I think they'd do well to have one every week.
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by DavedaHammer »

Gopher123 wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:56 am It amazes me how some continue to push SLC as a good option. They were terrible in the AAF. 8k-10k for home games, and they weren’t an overly enthusiastic group either. What is the draw here that I’m missing?

Now, Denver could be a hit. I mentioned in a thread way back around when the USFL was going to announce teams, (I think it was around that time anyway), that I thought that was a market worth pursuing. Fans heavily support the Broncos and did the Gold early on before poor business decisions drowned the team.

I’m not sure about bringing back the Arizona Wranglers either. Phoenix didn’t support the Hotshots much better, about 10k a game. Even less excuses here than SLC. Weather was better, and the Hotshots were more exciting to watch. SLC had a dismal offense while the Hotshots had Wolford throwing deep to Rocket Ross.
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