Vegas and Memphis

XFL Football discussion.
4th&long
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Vegas and Memphis

Post by 4th&long »

Is there any possibility that both the USFL and XFL were being courted by Memphis and FedEx founder Smith and that's why Vegas was delayed?
johnnyangryfuzzball
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by johnnyangryfuzzball »

4th&long wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:24 pm Is there any possibility that both the USFL and XFL were being courted by Memphis and FedEx founder Smith and that's why Vegas was delayed?
Interesting theory, but I doubt it. Memphis has a pretty bad record with regard to most pro football leagues, but the Showboats were an exception. The XFL is still going mostly for larger markets and a more widespread footprint.

Memphis was always a better fit for the USFL than the XFL, much the same way Birmingham and New Orleans are. They're smaller, identifiably Southern/non-Texas markets. That might be what gives both leagues room to operate, much as the XFL and TSL did in '20.

Might Smith have made a pitch to both? I think it's possible... but I don't think the XFL would have been as receptive. Memphis doesn't have as much of the strategic advantages Vegas would bring.
GDAWG
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by GDAWG »

Mike Mitchell said on the Markcast that Las Vegas was a Gerry Cardinale idea from the start.
MGB01
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by MGB01 »

There wasn't even a connection with the Posse and the Mad Dogs (the only one I can think of) that would have it make any sense. The remnants of the Posse were to end up in a number of places, the last one being the proposed Miami Manatees, but Smith wasn't involved as the Mad Dogs were independent of the whole mess.
4th&long
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by 4th&long »

johnnyangryfuzzball wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:50 pm
4th&long wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:24 pm Is there any possibility that both the USFL and XFL were being courted by Memphis and FedEx founder Smith and that's why Vegas was delayed?
Interesting theory, but I doubt it. Memphis has a pretty bad record with regard to most pro football leagues, but the Showboats were an exception. The XFL is still going mostly for larger markets and a more widespread footprint.

Memphis was always a better fit for the USFL than the XFL, much the same way Birmingham and New Orleans are. They're smaller, identifiably Southern/non-Texas markets. That might be what gives both leagues room to operate, much as the XFL and TSL did in '20.

Might Smith have made a pitch to both? I think it's possible... but I don't think the XFL would have been as receptive. Memphis doesn't have as much of the strategic advantages Vegas would bring.
We'll see what strategic advantage LV brings to XFL. Its a small TV market (though growing), smallest in XFL. And a way more crowded now as a sports town... now the MLB A's are strongly looking at LV too. We'll see how LV plays out.

The USFL went to Memphis because of reduced travel distance and Fedex's Smith. It may hurt TV ratings leaving TB for a much smaller market, but that's the trade off.

Granted my IP was speculation, but something has slow walked the XFL from signing LV lease (it could be they had another round of cold feet). Hopefully we'll find out one day. But in general the two leagues are competing at many levels.
herns
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by herns »

johnnyangryfuzzball wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:50 pm
4th&long wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:24 pm Is there any possibility that both the USFL and XFL were being courted by Memphis and FedEx founder Smith and that's why Vegas was delayed?
Interesting theory, but I doubt it. Memphis has a pretty bad record with regard to most pro football leagues, but the Showboats were an exception. The XFL is still going mostly for larger markets and a more widespread footprint.

Memphis was always a better fit for the USFL than the XFL, much the same way Birmingham and New Orleans are. They're smaller, identifiably Southern/non-Texas markets. That might be what gives both leagues room to operate, much as the XFL and TSL did in '20.

Might Smith have made a pitch to both? I think it's possible... but I don't think the XFL would have been as receptive. Memphis doesn't have as much of the strategic advantages Vegas would bring.
Disagree, memphis did solid for the AAF given that the team wasn’t marketed to the city and was one of the worst teams in the league. Given players are paid in the USFL idk how much like TSL it could be in terms of competition, the leagues will be splitting talent and competing for it, the real competition comes with offensive lineman and tv viewers imo
4th&long
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by 4th&long »

herns wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:58 am
johnnyangryfuzzball wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:50 pm
4th&long wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:24 pm Is there any possibility that both the USFL and XFL were being courted by Memphis and FedEx founder Smith and that's why Vegas was delayed?
Interesting theory, but I doubt it. Memphis has a pretty bad record with regard to most pro football leagues, but the Showboats were an exception. The XFL is still going mostly for larger markets and a more widespread footprint.

Memphis was always a better fit for the USFL than the XFL, much the same way Birmingham and New Orleans are. They're smaller, identifiably Southern/non-Texas markets. That might be what gives both leagues room to operate, much as the XFL and TSL did in '20.

Might Smith have made a pitch to both? I think it's possible... but I don't think the XFL would have been as receptive. Memphis doesn't have as much of the strategic advantages Vegas would bring.
Disagree, memphis did solid for the AAF given that the team wasn’t marketed to the city and was one of the worst teams in the league. Given players are paid in the USFL idk how much like TSL it could be in terms of competition, the leagues will be splitting talent and competing for it, the real competition comes with offensive lineman and tv viewers imo
Yeah this is nothing like XFL / TSL circa 2020. TSL 2020 was more like Hub/NFL Academy with structured games.
XFL 2.0/3.0, USFL and AAF are all comparable leagues. So far USFL is only one to complete a season. 2023 will be an interesting year.
johnnyangryfuzzball
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by johnnyangryfuzzball »

4th&long wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:07 pm
herns wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:58 am
johnnyangryfuzzball wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:50 pm
Interesting theory, but I doubt it. Memphis has a pretty bad record with regard to most pro football leagues, but the Showboats were an exception. The XFL is still going mostly for larger markets and a more widespread footprint.

Memphis was always a better fit for the USFL than the XFL, much the same way Birmingham and New Orleans are. They're smaller, identifiably Southern/non-Texas markets. That might be what gives both leagues room to operate, much as the XFL and TSL did in '20.

Might Smith have made a pitch to both? I think it's possible... but I don't think the XFL would have been as receptive. Memphis doesn't have as much of the strategic advantages Vegas would bring.
Disagree, memphis did solid for the AAF given that the team wasn’t marketed to the city and was one of the worst teams in the league. Given players are paid in the USFL idk how much like TSL it could be in terms of competition, the leagues will be splitting talent and competing for it, the real competition comes with offensive lineman and tv viewers imo
Yeah this is nothing like XFL / TSL circa 2020. TSL 2020 was more like Hub/NFL Academy with structured games.
XFL 2.0/3.0, USFL and AAF are all comparable leagues. So far USFL is only one to complete a season. 2023 will be an interesting year.
I just use that as the big example of how two leagues with pro-caliber players can exist. Obviously, other than Brian Woods, USFL is a step up from TSL, though it remains to be seen if it can be sustained.
4th&long
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by 4th&long »

johnnyangryfuzzball wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:55 pm
4th&long wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:07 pm
herns wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:58 am

Disagree, memphis did solid for the AAF given that the team wasn’t marketed to the city and was one of the worst teams in the league. Given players are paid in the USFL idk how much like TSL it could be in terms of competition, the leagues will be splitting talent and competing for it, the real competition comes with offensive lineman and tv viewers imo
Yeah this is nothing like XFL / TSL circa 2020. TSL 2020 was more like Hub/NFL Academy with structured games.
XFL 2.0/3.0, USFL and AAF are all comparable leagues. So far USFL is only one to complete a season. 2023 will be an interesting year.
I just use that as the big example of how two leagues with pro-caliber players can exist. Obviously, other than Brian Woods, USFL is a step up from TSL, though it remains to be seen if it can be sustained.
USFL and XFL 3.0 are both in that "can it be sustained" category.
GDAWG
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Re: Vegas and Memphis

Post by GDAWG »

USFL is going to try to get all of its original teams it seems like, but one place they might not be able to go to is Oakland, unless they sign an agreement with the University of California for the Oakland Invaders to play there, since Cal is 15 minutes from Oakland, as compared to Santa Clara, which is 45 minutes from Oakland. It's also a conundrum the XFL might have if they ever decide to go into Oakland.

The University of California's issues with pro football (via Wikipedia)
The NFL's Oakland Raiders played their second game of the 1973 regular season at Memorial Stadium. The game against the defending Super Bowl champion Miami Dolphins was moved from the Raiders' regular home, the Oakland Coliseum, because of a scheduling conflict with the Oakland Athletics, who hosted the Minnesota Twins at the Coliseum the following night. The Raiders ended the Dolphins' NFL record 18-game winning streak with a 12–7 victory on four field goals by 45-year-old George Blanda on September 23. Several preseason games were also played at the stadium in the early 1970s.

Ultimately, in response to traffic and parking issues associated with these games (while Cal games drew a large number of students who live on or near campus and walk to the games, Raider games attracted fans from a larger geographic area who were used to tailgating at the Coliseum and were more likely to drive to games), the City of Berkeley passed a Professional Sports Events License Tax in which the city collected 10% of all gate receipts, making the staging of professional games inside the city cost-prohibitive. The Raiders were granted an injunction from the city collecting the tax, arguing that the tax was a regulatory measure rather than a revenue measure, and was therefore an improper regulation on land held in trust by the Regents of the University of California. However, the grant of the injunction was reversed by the California Court of Appeals, who found it to be a revenue measure, despite the fact that the city had made the measure immediately effective "due to danger to the public peace, health, and safety of the City of Berkeley as a result of the holding of professional sports events there.
Now, things likely have changed since 1973, especially when the stadium underwent renovations in 2010.
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