XFL not funding CFL return to play...

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nick1091
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Re: XFL not funding CFL return to play...

Post by nick1091 »

4th&long wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:13 pm
As far as the full reboot... my question to the XFL ownership is - why bother buying the XFL? Save $15mm + assumed debt and start from scratch, isn't that a full reboot sans the cost? Did they just buy the XFL to block someone else from buying them (eg VM)?
I don't think the acquisition was a block. The Rock has about 7 movies he's committed to, plus the TV show and whatever his production/endorsement deals amount to. Based on the current "activity" (or lack thereof) surrounding the XFL, I can't see at least him (and then perhaps by some extention DG/RedBird) having both the time and inclination to create a from scratch start up, as much for the money aspect as well as just the time it would entail.

With 20/20 hindsight based on what intel we have, I think they approached this like most other private equity firms - they were buying a distressed/undervalued business, and thought they could put some minimal investment into it and either watch it grow exponentially, or "flip," it for a profit (either by selling it outright, or by decentralizing and selling off the individual franchises. It seems like they either misread the marketplace and thought as a live sports provider they could get a reasonable deal with at least one of the big players, or thought that Johnson's presence in the endeavor (I'm sure he can probably get a lot of films or TV shows made just based on his involvement) would somehow be the same in the sports rights marketplace and got a rude awakening.
4th&long
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Re: XFL not funding CFL return to play...

Post by 4th&long »

nick1091 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:29 pm
4th&long wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:13 pm
As far as the full reboot... my question to the XFL ownership is - why bother buying the XFL? Save $15mm + assumed debt and start from scratch, isn't that a full reboot sans the cost? Did they just buy the XFL to block someone else from buying them (eg VM)?
I don't think the acquisition was a block. The Rock has about 7 movies he's committed to, plus the TV show and whatever his production/endorsement deals amount to. Based on the current "activity" (or lack thereof) surrounding the XFL, I can't see at least him (and then perhaps by some extention DG/RedBird) having both the time and inclination to create a from scratch start up, as much for the money aspect as well as just the time it would entail.

With 20/20 hindsight based on what intel we have, I think they approached this like most other private equity firms - they were buying a distressed/undervalued business, and thought they could put some minimal investment into it and either watch it grow exponentially, or "flip," it for a profit (either by selling it outright, or by decentralizing and selling off the individual franchises. It seems like they either misread the marketplace and thought as a live sports provider they could get a reasonable deal with at least one of the big players, or thought that Johnson's presence in the endeavor (I'm sure he can probably get a lot of films or TV shows made just based on his involvement) would somehow be the same in the sports rights marketplace and got a rude awakening.
Agreed, especially the last part of the bold, and I thought that since 10/1/2020 announcement.
nick1091
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Re: XFL not funding CFL return to play...

Post by nick1091 »

4th&long wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:45 pm Agreed, especially the last part of the bold, and I thought that since 10/1/2020 announcement.
I mean I wasn't skeptical about it then. 2021 season at that point I didn't think was going to happen because you at least in part had to rebuild all the team infrastructure that had been lost in the bankruptcy. As time has passed, my confidence level has gone down.

By the way back to the article, one thing I found relatively interesting was that the CFL statement was that they'd never asked for funding for this season, not that it hadn't been offered. At this point it would seem the item of most interest that the XFL can tangibly bring to the table is the access to Red Bird's cash. Without a TV deal (never mind front offices, season ticket holders, coaches, players, etc.) anything else XFL would be bringing to the table here is just largely hypothetical.
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Re: XFL not funding CFL return to play...

Post by 4th&long »

nick1091 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:27 pm
4th&long wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:45 pm Agreed, especially the last part of the bold, and I thought that since 10/1/2020 announcement.
I mean I wasn't skeptical about it then. 2021 season at that point I didn't think was going to happen because you at least in part had to rebuild all the team infrastructure that had been lost in the bankruptcy. As time has passed, my confidence level has gone down.

By the way back to the article, one thing I found relatively interesting was that the CFL statement was that they'd never asked for funding for this season, not that it hadn't been offered. At this point it would seem the item of most interest that the XFL can tangibly bring to the table is the access to Red Bird's cash. Without a TV deal (never mind front offices, season ticket holders, coaches, players, etc.) anything else XFL would be bringing to the table here is just largely hypothetical.
Agreed with some tweaks - as far as 2021 - I felt they needed a vastly scaled down hybrid bubble season (4 teams, in Dallas & Houston with NY and LA) to show they were "in business" and on the rebound. It would have cost a fraction of the 2020 season but would have kept interest high and they could use Covid as cover for the reduced scale and size. Its a TV league anyway. ALL sports leagues played in 2020 and into 2021. The fact that Fox signed with TSL the day after the suspend 2021 announcement was, to me, very telling. So I had low confidence then but not zero.

As far as the CFL statement - you got it RBC's cash is now really all they have as they are not an on going league. And even that is hypothetical. IMO they are searching for a way to make their $15mm investment work. Because the minute they call it quits a new league will fill the void... in fact TSL-FOX is trying already.
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Re: XFL not funding CFL return to play...

Post by johnnyangryfuzzball »

MGB01 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:05 pm FCF is a glorified offseason fantasy project, nothing more. If it ever becomes real serious all the sudden you're going to have real costs that come with it (we saw how that worked with Fanchise in the past), so no need to blow it up into a thing.
In a sense, though, that's what most offseason football is to begin with, for football fans, anyway. It then becomes a matter of what kind of "offseason fantasy project" it becomes. I'll also add that "offseason fantasy projects" aren't necessarily a bad thing: Da Beauty League has been doing a similar thing with hockey for several years now, and they even land active NHL'ers. Football's obviously a different beast, but you still have to remember that no league is going to be the NFL, or even the NCAA, in the late winter and early spring.

The football you're going to get in the offseason is inherently going to be different. Inferior? To an extent, unfortunately, yes, but what makes it worthwhile, enough that it becomes sustainable? Do you go the route of FCF or Da Beauty League and make something where you get players that are there to have fun or maybe get a few eyeballs while you put the package around it into something fan-friendly? Or do you go the route of TSL, make the fan experience secondary and make the players your customers as they try to break into the big leagues, at the expense of scaring off more recognizable talent?

That's the dilemma that the XFL is going to face going into 2022 or 2023. It had positioned itself somewhere in the middle of that. It can, and did, coexist with TSL. Can it coexist in a world where the XFL, TSL and FCF are all tugging at different parts of the offseason football fan market?
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Firecop
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Re: XFL not funding CFL return to play...

Post by Firecop »

The FCF is a gimmicky gamer's niche league; it's not football and it's not even really indoor/arena football. It is not ever going to replace any developmental or alternative football league because it is NOT football as we know it and as America enjoys it. It is what it is and that's fine, but it's not football. I'm not knocking it and I hope they succeed with it. The TSL is a different beast with a whole world of potential in front of it, IF, as 4th&Long says, they don't screw it up. They are starting small and possible working their way up, something the AAF never did. The XFL, got a series of bad breaks and is a different story.
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