TSL season’s end another black eye for secondary football leagues

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laxtreme56
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Re: TSL season’s end another black eye for secondary football leagues

Post by laxtreme56 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:43 pm

4th&long wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:19 pm
GregParks wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:52 pm
I would say normally I'd be fine taking someone like Woods at his word, but I'm not sure he's earned that given his previous football ventures and some other questionable moves he's made in the past that have been documented on this board.

Bottom line, there were issues beyond COVID here, as evidenced in the Mitchell article I cited as well as the public complaint from at least one player - the Tweets by Farrow and the UFPA certainly make it sound like more have come forward. As has been said, there will never be a shortage of players willing to chase their dream even if it's into the buzzsaw of a scam (not saying that's what TSL is, but others have). The question is then getting players of quality.

And of course, I feel like I need to throw this in there again: We have no actual evidence beyond conjecture that the XFL3.0 is having/has had/ever will have a funding problem.
Conjecture is all we need. But there is evidence - DG has said the league needs a paying contract, that its not operating on self funding. She didn't say quite that way I'm paraphrasing, but that's all the evidence I need.
I don't blame her either. Nobody likes losing tens of millions of dollars. Paid attendance and merchandise sales aren't enough to stay afloat long time. Ask the 150+ defunct arena/indoor football teams how much TV revenue they ever made. Even a low paying deal along the lines of MLS or the WNBA would suffice.

4th&long
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Re: TSL season’s end another black eye for secondary football leagues

Post by 4th&long » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:54 pm

laxtreme56 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:43 pm
4th&long wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:19 pm
GregParks wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:52 pm
I would say normally I'd be fine taking someone like Woods at his word, but I'm not sure he's earned that given his previous football ventures and some other questionable moves he's made in the past that have been documented on this board.

Bottom line, there were issues beyond COVID here, as evidenced in the Mitchell article I cited as well as the public complaint from at least one player - the Tweets by Farrow and the UFPA certainly make it sound like more have come forward. As has been said, there will never be a shortage of players willing to chase their dream even if it's into the buzzsaw of a scam (not saying that's what TSL is, but others have). The question is then getting players of quality.

And of course, I feel like I need to throw this in there again: We have no actual evidence beyond conjecture that the XFL3.0 is having/has had/ever will have a funding problem.
Conjecture is all we need. But there is evidence - DG has said the league needs a paying contract, that its not operating on self funding. She didn't say quite that way I'm paraphrasing, but that's all the evidence I need.
I don't blame her either. Nobody likes losing tens of millions of dollars. Paid attendance and merchandise sales aren't enough to stay afloat long time. Ask the 150+ defunct arena/indoor football teams how much TV revenue they ever made. Even a low paying deal along the lines of MLS or the WNBA would suffice.
Its not that I blame her... I just don't see it likely of any different from any other pie-in-sky league that never gets off the ground.

VM plan was go in big and long-term (relatively). Build on his dime mostly and cash in after that period. It was high cost and high reward. And it was working. :|

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Re: TSL season’s end another black eye for secondary football leagues

Post by GregParks » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:55 pm

As a follow-up, here's a story from XFLNewsHub about the end of TSL's regular season, including a statement from the UFPA:

https://xflnewshub.com/the-spring-leagu ... volvement/

And they link to an Athletic article (subscription required) by Daniel Kaplan, who covered the XFL, titled "The Spring League halts amid outbreak, releases players without exit tests" that quotes, among others, Jerimiah Spicer:

https://theathletic.com/2214232/2020/11 ... xit-tests/
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4th&long
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Re: TSL season’s end another black eye for secondary football leagues

Post by 4th&long » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:17 am

GregParks wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:55 pm
As a follow-up, here's a story from XFLNewsHub about the end of TSL's regular season, including a statement from the UFPA:

https://xflnewshub.com/the-spring-leagu ... volvement/

And they link to an Athletic article (subscription required) by Daniel Kaplan, who covered the XFL, titled "The Spring League halts amid outbreak, releases players without exit tests" that quotes, among others, Jerimiah Spicer:

https://theathletic.com/2214232/2020/11 ... xit-tests/
While i don't refute the reporting, I think its all too easy to rag on a league/entity for failing to be what you expected. Unfortunately that's my perception of the what the UFPA is going to be. I have no issue with them helping players and maybe more, but they seem to be just a group to publicly whine.

Again the TSL is a true low cost Dev league and expectations need to match. And I'm sure some players were not happy with it. But that happens everywhere. I hope a few players don't ruin it for the rest.

A rushed together, low cost funded league is going to be more harshly impacted by adverse climate. Hopefully Fox saw enough to like and things end with a quality game on 12/2. Game or not, I hope they get an FS1 chance in the spring.

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Re: TSL season’s end another black eye for secondary football leagues

Post by GDAWG » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:50 am

The failure of the TSL isn't going to help the XFL's return in 2022 nor the proposed leagues of the American Patriot League, Freedom Football League and Major League Football, none of which will ever kick off.

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Tank55
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Re: TSL season’s end another black eye for secondary football leagues

Post by Tank55 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:01 am

Even though I think 4th&long's incessant handwringing over XFL 3.0 is totally over the top, I agree that the burden of proof is always on ownership to prove that they have the money and the willingness to spend it to execute their vision. XFL 2.0 was unique in that they had an owner who had done this before and was under no illusions of the financial commitment required. I think skepticism over the new owners is healthy and reasonable.

The divide was always on whether waiting until Spring 2022 was prudent or a red flag. I'd think that seeing TSL fail to complete a four-week season in a single location would speak to the former, but I'm constantly impressed with 4th&long's ability to interpret new evidence in a way that matches his original position.
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Re: TSL season’s end another black eye for secondary football leagues

Post by GregParks » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:31 am

4th&long wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:17 am
Unfortunately that's my perception of the what the UFPA is going to be. I have no issue with them helping players and maybe more, but they seem to be just a group to publicly whine.
One man's "advocating for the best interests of players" is another man's "whining," I suppose. Applying public pressure is not a new tactic in terms of trying to improve working conditions for any union, or in this case, union-ish, group.
Tank55 wrote:Even though I think 4th&long's incessant handwringing over XFL 3.0 is totally over the top, I agree that the burden of proof is always on ownership to prove that they have the money and the willingness to spend it to execute their vision. XFL 2.0 was unique in that they had an owner who had done this before and was under no illusions of the financial commitment required. I think skepticism over the new owners is healthy and reasonable.
Absolutely - and I've made no bones about how difficult I think it will be for this group to succeed in the current climate. But I think the reasoning that "they're not willing to lose hundreds of millions of dollars like Vince McMahon" = "they're short on money" is a stretch. There's more than one way to skin a cat, as they say, and just because this group appears to have a different business approach to the XFL than Vince did doesn't make it wrong.
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Re: TSL season’s end another black eye for secondary football leagues

Post by 4th&long » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:32 pm

Tank55 wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:01 am
Even though I think 4th&long's incessant handwringing over XFL 3.0 is totally over the top, I agree that the burden of proof is always on ownership to prove that they have the money and the willingness to spend it to execute their vision. XFL 2.0 was unique in that they had an owner who had done this before and was under no illusions of the financial commitment required. I think skepticism over the new owners is healthy and reasonable.

The divide was always on whether waiting until Spring 2022 was prudent or a red flag. I'd think that seeing TSL fail to complete a four-week season in a single location would speak to the former, but I'm constantly impressed with 4th&long's ability to interpret new evidence in a way that matches his original position.
I appreciate that, - Thanks Tank!

I'll say this - with 2 vaccine's to be approved before ye as promised and Texas saying no more lockdowns... the hybrid bubble of 4 teams playing out of Dallas/Houston I hypothized to me looks like the right deal. Lets see how the virus goes but its spreading mostly over 12-35 yo's ie extremely low fatality group. By Feb with natural herd immunity and vaccines its ending.

And let's be clear - DG DID say that they want a paying deal to move forward. I hope they get it.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/redfield ... n-december

>>Redfield added that the surge of cases and hospitalizations across the U.S. is being driven by what he called "the silent epidemic, the asymptomatic infections largely in individuals between the ages of 12 and 35."<<

Comapring to the low budget, rushed to market, TSL is not the correct comparison IMO. The NFL is. And they are making it work.

MGB01
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Re: TSL season’s end another black eye for secondary football leagues

Post by MGB01 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:42 pm

TSL hasn't made it official yet, but there's not gonna be a 12/2 championship game, at least on FS1 anyway--a college basketball doubleheader followed by the MLS Western Conference final takes care of that.

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Firecop
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Re: TSL season’s end another black eye for secondary football leagues

Post by Firecop » Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:12 pm

I guess that I remain hopeful of an XFL 3.0 in 2022; in fact, I would say that I am optimistic. I can't see this ownership group going off half cocked and buying the league without a great deal of forethought and as was previously posted - a business plan.

I also think that it was extremely prudent to put off a return of the league until 2022; not just for COVID but also to get their proverbial ducks in a row in terms of stadium contracts, potential TV/streaming partnerships, talking with prospective coaches, staffing, and the like.

If we've learned nothing from the AAF or TSL, it is that rushing to get something (Anything?) on the field is a recipe for disaster. I am more than willing to be patient, be hopeful, and give the ownership group time to do things right. We were patient for VM to do it in 2.0 and we should do the same for 3.0. I think the principals are just too smart to not think this through completely. They knew what they were getting into from the get go, now let's all wait and see how it plays out.
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