PMP and the myth of big names

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MGB01
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PMP and the myth of big names

Post by MGB01 »

It's no secret that if any alt football league is to survive in the states, it needs three, and all three, things: Product, Money, and Presentation.

(M comes first but I was going with PMP not as PiMP, but as a reference to an early second-season episode of Elementary that revolved around the equation of P=MP)

No league has in the modern era, the Arena League during the NBC years came close to it. The UFL and AAF had 1-1.5 at best. XFL1.0 had half as well but the most important part (M) was never a problem, now it's a question of the other half. Certainly not having to oversell hits and tackles, or make hidden sexual references to catches off reflections or the quarterback's ability to lead the offense is a big part of taking care of both Ps.

Certainly ESPN, one of the biggest critics of X1 (specifically Mike Tirico and Bob Ley at the time), would never have been involved if this was just X1 redux, their current coverage of WWE (which certainly wasn't around in 2001) notwithstanding.

Are big names part of the presentation? perhaps. Sure, some guys like Andrew Luck, Telvin Smith, and Doug Baldwin (Pro Bowlers each) not playing this year would make some people tempted to have them in the XFL, of course there are problems with that, the biggest being that two of three of them are under contract, and Baldwin was released so he could start getting retirement benefits--as was Kam Chancellor. Plus Luck and Baldwin are so beat up that they would just rather be able to walk.

Kaepernick? Well we know he wanted mega-millions to play in the AAF (which they didn't even have).

But here's the problem with big names. All the sudden the league becomes about them, and neither of the two outcomes is any good for the league: Superstar X dominates, the league becomes a footnote; he either "middles" or is outright bad the story isn't the quality of the league and the players they get its what happened to him?

Rocket Ismail played in Toronto for two years at a time when the CFL was dangerously close to dying. Didn't do anything for them and, proper credit should also be given to Scumbag Hall of Famer Bruce McNall, actually magnified how bad the situation was. The CFL was on much better footing when Ricky Williams played in TO as well in 2006, but the Dolphins only allowed him to play for a year then return the next year, so what was the point?

Or speaking of TO, how about the Allen Wranglers debacle in 2012 and what it did for the IFL? The IFL was at around 24 teams as recently as 2012 and shrank all the way down to six in 2018, so not much. Fact TO lasted less than a month as a Hawk in his final bid to get back in the NFL, so what was the point again? The Wranglers are the Texas Revolution in the CIF so it didn't exactly carry them to new heights.

The UFL didn't die cause they couldn't sign Michael Vick, they died cause they, as Lex Luger might put it, "Can't even afford to pay me?!?" :x :x :x :x :x

And there won't be any such revenues that will pay it off and put them over either simply it won't be anything more than a short-term engagement, leaving the league in worse financial shape.

Meantime, it should be all game, not name. The three big plays that got the AAF off the ground/biggest name player involved? Gavin Escobar (no look pass). Everyone knows what killed the AAF, and if they couldn't afford to operate an eight-team league that runs at about 50-100 mil then how are they are going to afford a big name superstar?

Sure, just go ahead and draft the Trevor Lawrences and the next Tuas early. Yeah that'll work. Three letters, J-B-A. Didn't see the Zions of the world lining up to jump ball there did you?

The AAF did show that the audience is there, and who knows what they would have done with an XFL setup? And, for the love of God, don't make yourself look like a league that's not going to be around in a month. Constantly mentioning the NFL where you might as well be begging for a buyout is a good start.

PMP is the plan, stick with it and there's no problem
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MikeMitchell
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Re: PMP and the myth of big names

Post by MikeMitchell »

The style of play, The quality of play and the presentation are going to be key. What makes you want to keep watching? How the product looks and feels will help determine long term sustainability.

It's nice having a few household names to draw people in. Especially at the start of the league. The great thing about sports is that stars can be made based on performance. You may come to see a team with Landry Jones at QB and discover a superstar RB that is electrifying on The Renegades. No matter what league you are in. Every team ends up having star players and star performances. The league needs to properly promote their players and then keep the spotlight shining bright on them.
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johnnyangryfuzzball
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Re: PMP and the myth of big names

Post by johnnyangryfuzzball »

Some counterpoints, though:

You go back to the last major league to beat the NFL, the American Football League of the 1960s... and what did they do? Yeah, they dug up forgotten talent, but landing big names like Billy Cannon and Joe Namath was the point that gave them the credibility they needed.

I won't deny that this is a MUCH different world for pro football than 1960, with the NFL awash in billions in TV money and all, but if you're going to have a national league, you have to have recognizable talent. And not just one name.

To use your UFL example: yeah, they didn't land Vick, but they did land Ahman Green, Daunte Culpepper, Jeff Garcia, names that were admittedly past their peak but undeniably NFL stars. And guess what? They were successes in bringing fans to their cities but didn't overpower the rest of the league. Their failure was largely due to their horrendous TV situation; playing in the fall meant having to squeeze in between college football and the NFL, a nearly impossible task.

Terrell Owens turned the Allen Wranglers, who operate in that low-budget abyss that is regional indoor football, from a 600-tickets-a-game money-loser to a 6,000-tickets-a-game success. His never-ending personal drama doesn't necessarily disprove the impact he had.

I will concede that Ismail to Toronto was a bad idea, though this was still the era when the CFL thought it could keep up with the NFL, the culmination of lost sponsorship and hitting the limits in a country about an eighth of the size of the USA... which, of course, inspired Ryckman, McNall and Glieberman to set up shop in the USA for a couple years, which is a whole other discussion.

Now, go back to X1. When it came to recognizable talent, X1 had... nothing. X1 was populated with draft busts, unknowns and arena footballers looking to make a few extra bucks. It hurt the league's credibility to see Ryan Clement against Charley Puleri as their most-watched game, and it showed in the on-field product.

Now, I'm not saying they should go try and poach Patrick Mahomes. But they need names people recognize. Even if it's Johnny Manziel and Trent Richardson. Names are part of the product.
MGB01
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Re: PMP and the myth of big names

Post by MGB01 »

The AFL outbid the NFL (back when that was possible) for Namath and Cannon--which since the AFL beat the NFL in court for Cannon that would be a victory. Nowadays, it ain't happening unless you set yourself up as a direct NFL competitor, and again, much as people pine for the plight of Trevor Lawrence, he's not leaving to play in the XFL, CFL, Arena League for a year any more than Zion Williamson was playing in the CBA.

You do have to have those guys, yes, AAF had them. The difference with Vick was he was high demand, where those guys were recognizable names.

The Wranglers suspended ops briefly after the 2012 season, rebranded as the Revolution, three years later moved to the CIF, and now looks like they might have gone out of operation again. The IFL was losing teams to the point where they were reduced to the whole Fanchise debacle. So any benefit with TO was purely short term.

Meanwhile the IFL's big name is the most successful arena/indoor team (at least outside Florida) that's ever existed: the Arizona Rattlers (although I do have some concerns, but another discussion)

So yes, names are part of the product, but shouldn't be the product
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Regular Joe
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Re: PMP and the myth of big names

Post by Regular Joe »

"I have nowhere else to go." - Richard Gere "Officer & A Gentleman"
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LeoNY
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Re: PMP and the myth of big names

Post by LeoNY »

There will be some “name players” in the XFL. I get the overall premise of the original post though. At the end of the day, the league itself has to be the draw. That takes time
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Regular Joe
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Re: PMP and the myth of big names

Post by Regular Joe »

Kap, Tebow, Johnny Football will sell tickets and draw ratings.

Ultimately the league will sell itself and we will see others just like them come through.

I hope they all take/get the paycheck though.

Besides $40 million to rock Adidas or Under Armor in the magazines might be available to them too..
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Joker
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Re: PMP and the myth of big names

Post by Joker »

Regular Joe wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:17 pm "I have nowhere else to go." - Richard Gere "Officer & A Gentleman"
That's a great movie line, and it seems relevant in some cases here.
Fan of the XFL from the beginning. You may remember me from the original XFLboard.
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Regular Joe
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Re: PMP and the myth of big names

Post by Regular Joe »

Joker wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:23 pm
Regular Joe wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:17 pm "I have nowhere else to go." - Richard Gere "Officer & A Gentleman"
That's a great movie line, and it seems relevant in some cases here.
Thanks for paying attention and not thinking I'm being a wiseguy.
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nick1091
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Re: PMP and the myth of big names

Post by nick1091 »

My thought here is essentially "come for the name, stay for the game." A league as large in scale as the XFL is going to be won't be a success if you don't to some extent loop in the casual fan, and there's a certain cachet to some of the names mentioned earlier that make people more apt to tune in to see what they're up to (in addition to coaches like Stoops.) The die hards like us they already have, but AAF showed it will take more than die hards to fill stadiums (I think this is doubly so because I actually think the AAF product was better than I would've anticipated.)

If these guys play up to their name, great. Best case scenario is that happens and that unheralded players ball out and become names based on their play.

Take for example the Big 3 basketball league. The three most heralded players in their inaugural year (Iverson, Jermaine O'Neal, Jason Williams) didn't even finish the whole 8 game season (Williams tore his ACL in the first game.) But the league was\is a success because other players who weren't household names to the same extent made the games still worth watching.
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