Future XFL Expansion

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GDAWG
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Future XFL Expansion

Post by GDAWG » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:23 pm

I know some may say it's too early to talk about it, but I am optimistic (although a bit cautious) that the XFL will finish one year and go into a second year with high hopes. It's fun to speculate anyways. For me, I think that when the XFL expands, they will need a presence in the Midwest. The Battlehawks are the lone team in that area and the closest team to them are the Renegades. They are going to want a team closer. Having said that, I have three cities that could fill that need: Minneapolis, Detroit and Indianapolis. All three are NFL markets and they also play in dome stadiums, so weather would not be an issue. Not sure that Cleveland or Cincinnati would be successful XFL markets, but they don't have dome stadiums. Columbus is bigger than Cleveland and Cincinnati, but they are not an NFL market so I doubt they would be considered for XFL.

And then there's Chicago. Chicago is the 3rd biggest TV market in the US, but the Windy City has never proven it can support an alternative league team. The WFL and USFL failed there and the XFL failed there in 2001. Even if this version of the XFL is a success, there's no guarantee a return to Chicago will mean success for the Windy City XFL Team. There could be two options to ensure XFL success in Chicago though. The first option is to grant Chicago an expansion team, but with conditions, namely to ask them to sell 30,000 tickets by a certain date. If they cannot meet the deadline, their expansion is revoked and awarded to another Midwest team. The second option is to hold neutral site games in Chicago to gauge interest. This one seems like the route the XFL would go: going to Chicago to see if there is any interest from the sports fans there. I would wait a bit for Chicago and not award them a team when the league does their first round of expansion until they can prove they can host an alternative football team successfully at the box office.

Northeast could be another option, but the weather could be an issue. Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh and Baltimore could all be options, but out of those, I think it will be Philly. Boston might be out due to lack of venues as I am certain that the Kraft Group will not allow the XFL to go into Foxboro and also certain the Red Sox will not allow the XFL at Fenway. Harvard Stadium would be a better practice field than actual XFL Boston Stadium. This leaves Alumni Stadium. Now if Boston College says the XFL can play at Alumni Stadium, then an XFL team in Boston is more than welcome. If not, Boston should be out. Baltimore is close to DC, but that hasn't stopped the NFL from having teams in both cities and they have a history of supporting alternative football. Pittsburgh could be interesting in the future: does the Pittsburgh XFL team want to be different and have a color scheme that isn't black and gold? If they do, will the Pittsburgh fans embrace a professional team that doesn't have those colors? The Maulers didn't get strong support in the USFL.

And then there is also the West Coast. The league will probably expand into the Bay Area if they can find a stadium open and willing to host an XFL team, which will probably be Levi's Stadium. There's no guarantee that Stanford, San Jose State or Cal will be open to allowing the XFL to play in their stadiums. Avaya Stadium is owned by MLS San Jose Earthquakes, and while it hosts 18,000 people, there's also no guarantee that they would say yes. Even if the SF Giants say yes to Oracle Park as a potential venue for a return to the XFL, does Oliver Luck want to put a team in a baseball stadium where the baseball team is still playing in that stadium? Forget about the Oakland Coliseum, as I read that the A's plan on turning it into an amphitheater, just for concerts much like the Hollywood Bowl in LA. Kezar Stadium could be an option, but that would require adding an additional 15,000 seats to the 10,000 seats that stadium already has.

The XFL could go back to San Diego, but I would wait until the new stadium opens. Then go into San Diego. I would give Las Vegas a second shot now that they have the Raiders and a brand new stadium. The LA Wildcats have already practiced there, so this seems like a solid option. I don't think Arizona would be an option since the AAF didn't do so well there. Not sure if the XFL will do well in Denver.

There's also the South. The XFL will eventually need teams in the area between Washington DC and Texas and probably another one in Florida. If the XFL was to add a second team in Florida, I would try to go back to Orlando or try Jacksonville instead of Miami. For the South, I would try Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville or New Orleans. I am not sure Atlanta would work after the AAF didn't do so well. Birmingham would not fit the MO of the XFL.

I could also see a third team in Texas, but I would go Austin instead of San Antonio. Austin would be an untested market for alternative football. San Antonio would only be a backup option if Austin cannot work for some reason.

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Re: Future XFL Expansion

Post by Metallifreak10 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:58 pm

As far as Chicago goes, I agree. I live in the West suburbs, and as much as I wanted an XFL team here, I understood why Chicago didn’t get one.

However, having been to one Bears game at Soldier Field, I can say traffic is a nightmare there on game days. But, even at Noon on a weekday, it’s terrible there. I used to deliver for Pepsi in the city, and all around Lakeshore drive is ridiculous. I would have advocated for them to use Toyota Park, especially since the Chicago Fire are choosing to go back to Soldier field for some idiotic reason.

It’s a 20,000 seat stadium, so a bit on the small side, but I have no doubt they’d sellout/almost sellout every game there. Very easy to get to, and it’s a beautiful stadium. Seeing concerts there is great as well.

My brother and I agreed to get season tickets if Chicago got a franchise and they chose Toyota Park. But, if they chose Soldier Field, we agreed to go to one game in April to support the team and league, but no more than that.

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Re: Future XFL Expansion

Post by GDAWG » Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:38 pm

Metallifreak10 wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:58 pm
As far as Chicago goes, I agree. I live in the West suburbs, and as much as I wanted an XFL team here, I understood why Chicago didn’t get one.

However, having been to one Bears game at Soldier Field, I can say traffic is a nightmare there on game days. But, even at Noon on a weekday, it’s terrible there. I used to deliver for Pepsi in the city, and all around Lakeshore drive is ridiculous. I would have advocated for them to use Toyota Park, especially since the Chicago Fire are choosing to go back to Soldier field for some idiotic reason.

It’s a 20,000 seat stadium, so a bit on the small side, but I have no doubt they’d sellout/almost sellout every game there. Very easy to get to, and it’s a beautiful stadium. Seeing concerts there is great as well.

My brother and I agreed to get season tickets if Chicago got a franchise and they chose Toyota Park. But, if they chose Soldier Field, we agreed to go to one game in April to support the team and league, but no more than that.
If the XFL wants Chicago, they need to announce that they are bringing games to Chicago. Test the market to see if the XFL can work there. History indicates that it probably won't work as Chicago never supported the WFL, USFL or XFL 1.0. If the XFL announces a team in Chicago for first round of expansion and names Bears Legend Mike Singletary as Head Coach and General Manager, but nobody shows up on opening day, it's going to look really bad for the XFL. If I am Oliver Luck, I would wait a while before expanding to Chicago. I would bring the XFL Championship to Chicago for 2 years to see if non-NFL pro football can work in the Windy City (or one year with a league option for a second year). Make sure that Chicago will be able to support XFL 2.0.

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LeoNY
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Re: Future XFL Expansion

Post by LeoNY » Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:49 pm

Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to all of you.

Here is how I would handle expansion if I were the XFL and they expand to let’s say two more teams.

The two non XFL markets that watch the league the most on TV in 2020, get the expansion franchises. By using ratings breakdowns by market. The XFL can determine which markets have the most interest in the league. It’s an easy way of seeing where the demand is. Now that can be skewed a bit because like for example. People from Oklahoma might watch Stoops games more so than other markets but let’s say that the Bay Area, San Antonio or places like Chicago or Detroit watch the XFL most. Then that’s where the league should go next.

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Re: Future XFL Expansion

Post by Rangersking669 » Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:30 am

GDAWG wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:23 pm
I know some may say it's too early to talk about it, but I am optimistic (although a bit cautious) that the XFL will finish one year and go into a second year with high hopes. It's fun to speculate anyways. For me, I think that when the XFL expands, they will need a presence in the Midwest. The Battlehawks are the lone team in that area and the closest team to them are the Renegades. They are going to want a team closer. Having said that, I have three cities that could fill that need: Minneapolis, Detroit and Indianapolis. All three are NFL markets and they also play in dome stadiums, so weather would not be an issue. Not sure that Cleveland or Cincinnati would be successful XFL markets, but they don't have dome stadiums. Columbus is bigger than Cleveland and Cincinnati, but they are not an NFL market so I doubt they would be considered for XFL.

And then there's Chicago. Chicago is the 3rd biggest TV market in the US, but the Windy City has never proven it can support an alternative league team. The WFL and USFL failed there and the XFL failed there in 2001. Even if this version of the XFL is a success, there's no guarantee a return to Chicago will mean success for the Windy City XFL Team. There could be two options to ensure XFL success in Chicago though. The first option is to grant Chicago an expansion team, but with conditions, namely to ask them to sell 30,000 tickets by a certain date. If they cannot meet the deadline, their expansion is revoked and awarded to another Midwest team. The second option is to hold neutral site games in Chicago to gauge interest. This one seems like the route the XFL would go: going to Chicago to see if there is any interest from the sports fans there. I would wait a bit for Chicago and not award them a team when the league does their first round of expansion until they can prove they can host an alternative football team successfully at the box office.

Northeast could be another option, but the weather could be an issue. Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh and Baltimore could all be options, but out of those, I think it will be Philly. Boston might be out due to lack of venues as I am certain that the Kraft Group will not allow the XFL to go into Foxboro and also certain the Red Sox will not allow the XFL at Fenway. Harvard Stadium would be a better practice field than actual XFL Boston Stadium. This leaves Alumni Stadium. Now if Boston College says the XFL can play at Alumni Stadium, then an XFL team in Boston is more than welcome. If not, Boston should be out. Baltimore is close to DC, but that hasn't stopped the NFL from having teams in both cities and they have a history of supporting alternative football. Pittsburgh could be interesting in the future: does the Pittsburgh XFL team want to be different and have a color scheme that isn't black and gold? If they do, will the Pittsburgh fans embrace a professional team that doesn't have those colors? The Maulers didn't get strong support in the USFL.

And then there is also the West Coast. The league will probably expand into the Bay Area if they can find a stadium open and willing to host an XFL team, which will probably be Levi's Stadium. There's no guarantee that Stanford, San Jose State or Cal will be open to allowing the XFL to play in their stadiums. Avaya Stadium is owned by MLS San Jose Earthquakes, and while it hosts 18,000 people, there's also no guarantee that they would say yes. Even if the SF Giants say yes to Oracle Park as a potential venue for a return to the XFL, does Oliver Luck want to put a team in a baseball stadium where the baseball team is still playing in that stadium? Forget about the Oakland Coliseum, as I read that the A's plan on turning it into an amphitheater, just for concerts much like the Hollywood Bowl in LA. Kezar Stadium could be an option, but that would require adding an additional 15,000 seats to the 10,000 seats that stadium already has.

The XFL could go back to San Diego, but I would wait until the new stadium opens. Then go into San Diego. I would give Las Vegas a second shot now that they have the Raiders and a brand new stadium. The LA Wildcats have already practiced there, so this seems like a solid option. I don't think Arizona would be an option since the AAF didn't do so well there. Not sure if the XFL will do well in Denver.

There's also the South. The XFL will eventually need teams in the area between Washington DC and Texas and probably another one in Florida. If the XFL was to add a second team in Florida, I would try to go back to Orlando or try Jacksonville instead of Miami. For the South, I would try Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville or New Orleans. I am not sure Atlanta would work after the AAF didn't do so well. Birmingham would not fit the MO of the XFL.

I could also see a third team in Texas, but I would go Austin instead of San Antonio. Austin would be an untested market for alternative football. San Antonio would only be a backup option if Austin cannot work for some reason.
I will say, the Rangers originally thought they might have to do something like that with GLP but then the XFL called. If the XFL can get a deal with the A's/Oakland to fix the Coliseum's structural problems and plumbing and etc, then the XFL on their own(this is if the league is doing well) can pay to get rid of the seats on top of Mt Davis, do some work on the exterior, and re-work some of the extra, unnecessary suites in Mt Davis into other revenue generating sources like shops and restaurants(studies have said out of the 140+ suites in the Coliseum even the Raiders only need about 75).

Personally, I think san antonio is a no brainer. Austin is a harder market to get into financially and san antonio offers just as many fans that are proven to show up for spring football. Not to mention, there is a hell of a lot more to do in Austin than in san antonio at any time of year.
If Oakland isn't available/not practical, then Indianapolis is a clear 3rd choice because the XFL would only have to compete with the Pacers, they have a dome stadium, they could build a stronger relationship with the NFL and its surrounding world of agents, execs, and etc with a home game there before every combine and perhaps even during it the next week.

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Re: Future XFL Expansion

Post by GDAWG » Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:10 am

Rangersking669 wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:30 am
GDAWG wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:23 pm
I know some may say it's too early to talk about it, but I am optimistic (although a bit cautious) that the XFL will finish one year and go into a second year with high hopes. It's fun to speculate anyways. For me, I think that when the XFL expands, they will need a presence in the Midwest. The Battlehawks are the lone team in that area and the closest team to them are the Renegades. They are going to want a team closer. Having said that, I have three cities that could fill that need: Minneapolis, Detroit and Indianapolis. All three are NFL markets and they also play in dome stadiums, so weather would not be an issue. Not sure that Cleveland or Cincinnati would be successful XFL markets, but they don't have dome stadiums. Columbus is bigger than Cleveland and Cincinnati, but they are not an NFL market so I doubt they would be considered for XFL.

And then there's Chicago. Chicago is the 3rd biggest TV market in the US, but the Windy City has never proven it can support an alternative league team. The WFL and USFL failed there and the XFL failed there in 2001. Even if this version of the XFL is a success, there's no guarantee a return to Chicago will mean success for the Windy City XFL Team. There could be two options to ensure XFL success in Chicago though. The first option is to grant Chicago an expansion team, but with conditions, namely to ask them to sell 30,000 tickets by a certain date. If they cannot meet the deadline, their expansion is revoked and awarded to another Midwest team. The second option is to hold neutral site games in Chicago to gauge interest. This one seems like the route the XFL would go: going to Chicago to see if there is any interest from the sports fans there. I would wait a bit for Chicago and not award them a team when the league does their first round of expansion until they can prove they can host an alternative football team successfully at the box office.

Northeast could be another option, but the weather could be an issue. Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh and Baltimore could all be options, but out of those, I think it will be Philly. Boston might be out due to lack of venues as I am certain that the Kraft Group will not allow the XFL to go into Foxboro and also certain the Red Sox will not allow the XFL at Fenway. Harvard Stadium would be a better practice field than actual XFL Boston Stadium. This leaves Alumni Stadium. Now if Boston College says the XFL can play at Alumni Stadium, then an XFL team in Boston is more than welcome. If not, Boston should be out. Baltimore is close to DC, but that hasn't stopped the NFL from having teams in both cities and they have a history of supporting alternative football. Pittsburgh could be interesting in the future: does the Pittsburgh XFL team want to be different and have a color scheme that isn't black and gold? If they do, will the Pittsburgh fans embrace a professional team that doesn't have those colors? The Maulers didn't get strong support in the USFL.

And then there is also the West Coast. The league will probably expand into the Bay Area if they can find a stadium open and willing to host an XFL team, which will probably be Levi's Stadium. There's no guarantee that Stanford, San Jose State or Cal will be open to allowing the XFL to play in their stadiums. Avaya Stadium is owned by MLS San Jose Earthquakes, and while it hosts 18,000 people, there's also no guarantee that they would say yes. Even if the SF Giants say yes to Oracle Park as a potential venue for a return to the XFL, does Oliver Luck want to put a team in a baseball stadium where the baseball team is still playing in that stadium? Forget about the Oakland Coliseum, as I read that the A's plan on turning it into an amphitheater, just for concerts much like the Hollywood Bowl in LA. Kezar Stadium could be an option, but that would require adding an additional 15,000 seats to the 10,000 seats that stadium already has.

The XFL could go back to San Diego, but I would wait until the new stadium opens. Then go into San Diego. I would give Las Vegas a second shot now that they have the Raiders and a brand new stadium. The LA Wildcats have already practiced there, so this seems like a solid option. I don't think Arizona would be an option since the AAF didn't do so well there. Not sure if the XFL will do well in Denver.

There's also the South. The XFL will eventually need teams in the area between Washington DC and Texas and probably another one in Florida. If the XFL was to add a second team in Florida, I would try to go back to Orlando or try Jacksonville instead of Miami. For the South, I would try Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville or New Orleans. I am not sure Atlanta would work after the AAF didn't do so well. Birmingham would not fit the MO of the XFL.

I could also see a third team in Texas, but I would go Austin instead of San Antonio. Austin would be an untested market for alternative football. San Antonio would only be a backup option if Austin cannot work for some reason.
I will say, the Rangers originally thought they might have to do something like that with GLP but then the XFL called. If the XFL can get a deal with the A's/Oakland to fix the Coliseum's structural problems and plumbing and etc, then the XFL on their own(this is if the league is doing well) can pay to get rid of the seats on top of Mt Davis, do some work on the exterior, and re-work some of the extra, unnecessary suites in Mt Davis into other revenue generating sources like shops and restaurants(studies have said out of the 140+ suites in the Coliseum even the Raiders only need about 75).

Personally, I think san antonio is a no brainer. Austin is a harder market to get into financially and san antonio offers just as many fans that are proven to show up for spring football. Not to mention, there is a hell of a lot more to do in Austin than in san antonio at any time of year.
If Oakland isn't available/not practical, then Indianapolis is a clear 3rd choice because the XFL would only have to compete with the Pacers, they have a dome stadium, they could build a stronger relationship with the NFL and its surrounding world of agents, execs, and etc with a home game there before every combine and perhaps even during it the next week.
The plan for the Oakland Coliseum is to eventually end up like their own version of the Hollywood Bowl in Los Angeles, which is strictly a music venue. That is the plan the A's have for the stadium anyways.

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Tank55
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Re: Future XFL Expansion

Post by Tank55 » Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:14 pm

I see two paths to expansion: moving to a franchise model, where McMahon can sell a new team to local ownership, or a new television contract where the added inventory (the fifth game) more than covers the marginal cost of operating teams 9 and 10.

If it's the former, all bets are off regarding location.

If it's the latter, I really think you'll continue to see the league focus on markets that can add value to the whole: major media markets that better distribute the league's reach domestically or, even better, expand the reach internationally.

Domestically, I think the top candidates are top 15 media markets with stadiums appropriate for February football: the Bay Area, Atlanta, Phoenix, Detroit, and Minneapolis-St. Paul.

But I really wouldn't sleep on Toronto, London, Berlin, or Dusseldorf. Each have barriers to entry, but they all can theoretically raise the total value of the television rights in a way that no US city can.
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MikeMitchell
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Re: Future XFL Expansion

Post by MikeMitchell » Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:35 pm

This topic again.

For what it’s worth. In Oliver Luck’s Q & A session on YouTube and social media. Luck hinted that the league is already planning years two and three. It sounds like expansion is in the cards. Maybe not immediately but it’s being discussed. A lot has to happen for it to fall into place.

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Re: Future XFL Expansion

Post by GregParks » Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:22 pm

I think the earliest we can talk expansion is year three; we won't know the level of success of the first season (at least the level of success needed to expand so soon) until late in the season, April or May. That wouldn't leave a lot of time to roll out an expansion franchise (even if they've already done the background work and know what city they want), set up a front office, coaching staff, pound the pavement locally, etc. etc. You could announce it in the summer of 2020 for play in 2022.
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Re: Future XFL Expansion

Post by steinerfhc » Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:01 pm

My thoughts is I think expansion is a given that is going to happen, I think the soonest would be after year two as long they have success after two years in the current market. Meaning year one they do well and after year one they can maintain the interest if not increase it in season two. If they keeps going I can see them adding going into season 3 at the soonest.

Now which cities are going to get them we can debate where until we turn blue at this point or how many teams would be added. My guess would be 2 and doing it by the 2s going forward to keep the divisions even.

For me now it's harder to think who deserves the teams first IMO It shouldn't be about the "market size" but how many in a market are interested in it and how good of the coverage the city will give it. My list no real order:

1. San Diego: Much like the Rams leaving St. Louis, The fans where pretty much handcuffed to be able to do anything to keep the team from leaving and the Chargers was a better team over all than the Rams was in the last 10 years in the market. So I believe the football fans there would love another chance. The AAF was a reason why maybe they didn't pick them to start but still think they do well with the XFL.

2. San Antonio: Another solid market but again they only have an NBA team in that city and believe did well with the AAF. The XFL I see no issues them having success.

3. Chicago: Even as an NFL already market. The idea I like is another rivalry can happen. That is another one for the BattleHawks because St. Louis vs. Chicago is sports goes through multiple sports now. So it's a natural fit for that again.

4. Boston: While yes is Patriots country. The idea of the NY XFL rivalry with the Boston team would be fun. Like St. Louis vs. Chicago a lot of multi sport history.

5. Birmingham, AL.: This was another AAF teamed Market and an XFL original, I think it a great choice because how popular college ball is there.

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