The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

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Tank55
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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by Tank55 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:24 am

Do we know if they tested this rule? I'm sure they did, but I guess I'm just surprised they were pleased with the results.

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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by Andibald » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:25 am

More observations...

This will also affect the trailing team when they have the ball. Traditionally, the team trailing can use various strategies to stop the clock...get out of bounds, incomplete pass, TO, and score. With the proposed rule, each play will be the equivalent of running 25-30 seconds off the clock. Time used running plays run by the team leading and the team trailing will be the same as far as the clock goes, except for the length of the play. Now, with the 25 second play clock rather than the NFL 40 second clock, the difference is less, but it still hurts the trailing team overall. They can't manipulate the clock in their favor.

Lot's of numbers flying through my head, so let me know if this is incorrect or if I need to refine my observation.

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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by Andibald » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:30 am

Andibald wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:25 am
More observations...

This will also affect the trailing team when they have the ball. Traditionally, the team trailing can use various strategies to stop the clock...get out of bounds, incomplete pass, TO, and score. With the proposed rule, each play will be the equivalent of running 25-30 seconds off the clock. Time used running plays run by the team leading and the team trailing will be the same as far as the clock goes, except for the length of the play. Now, with the 25 second play clock rather than the NFL 40 second clock, the difference is less, but it still hurts the trailing team overall. They can't manipulate the clock in their favor.

Lot's of numbers flying through my head, so let me know if this is incorrect or if I need to refine my observation.
On the other hand, the trailing team will not have to "hurry up" as the clock stops after every play. It will look different, for sure.

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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by MikeMitchell » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:34 am

Andibald wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:00 am
MikeMitchell wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:20 am
I am absolutely for the elimination of the kneel down. To me, it’s a meaningless play that goes against the competitive nature of games. This is a reimagining that I am down with.

How you get there is the intriguing part. There are many sides to this. I have to see it in play.

There’s no doubt that this increases offensive plays and keeps teams alive in games. A team with a lead has to try and get first downs to keep the lead, and to keep the opposing offense off of the field. Football is a sport where there is a “cheese” mode, where you can manipulate the clock in your favor by not running any plays. There are some facets of other sports where clock milking is done like hockey, but not to the extent of how easy it is in football to accomplish.
Thinking a bit more on this, I really don't think it will help much with the knee downs. For one, TO's in the final 2 minutes won't help with stopping the clock. Use them for strategy or rest but otherwise, use them before the 2 minute warning. In the NFL, the kneel downs start at a point where there is 40-45 seconds left per down available. That is adjusted based on TO's remaining. Basically speaking, if there is less than 2 minutes left, the defense has no TO's, and its 1st down, that's the game...kneel downs to follow.

What this rule will do, is transfer the kneel downs form the 2 minute warning to the final 15 seconds or less, of the game. Depending on the time remaining, the QB will delay the kneel, as we see at times now when there is slightly more that 40 seconds left per play remaining.

There is potential to at least make it seem better because of what the clock says when the kneeling starts.
Some good thoughts as always by you.

If I have the ball and the lead with a minute left. I can try to run 3 safe plays but I won’t be able to run out the clock unless I potentially get a first down or even two. Even if I run 3 QBs sneaks into the line. It’s really only going to take off anywhere from 15 to 20 seconds max off the clock. The other team is getting the ball back. If I attempt to run backwards or run some kind of delayed offense, it still won’t kill enough clock. The refs at their discretion, could in theory blow the play dead if a player is not trying to advance the football and is just doing the kneel back further gimmick.

That’s why it’s important how the league enforces these rules. There are so many variables in play. The clock stopping inside of two minutes really does add a lot more “action” plays for lack of a better term.

The unintended consequence of a clock that stops inside of two minutes is weakening the strength and strategy behind saving timeouts. Right now it’s reported that teams will only have 2 per half, rather than 3. I can’t wait to see all these rules, and I would classify myself as being open minded despite being a football fan for over 3 decades.

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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by MikeMitchell » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:37 am

Tank55 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:24 am
Do we know if they tested this rule? I'm sure they did, but I guess I'm just surprised they were pleased with the results.
They did in their last go around. They increased plays heavily. The coaches and players loved it. I got a number of 180 plays. Which is a lot.

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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by Andibald » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:40 am

MikeMitchell wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:37 am
Tank55 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:24 am
Do we know if they tested this rule? I'm sure they did, but I guess I'm just surprised they were pleased with the results.
They did in their last go around. They increased plays heavily. The coaches and players loved it. I got a number of 180 plays. Which is a lot.
The missing ingredient! ;) :)

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Tank55
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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by Tank55 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:46 am

Yeah, it won't be a dealbreaker for me either. I'm not expecting to like every move the XFL makes, and I expect to be proven wrong on some of my positions. I just don't see what's being improved. End of game play in football is awesome. Man vs. man vs. the clock; the value of guarding the sideline vs. giving up huge chunks of yards in the middle of the field, etc. It's football at it's best! How many of the sport's greatest moments fall within this window?

I don't understand this:
After all, late-game comebacks are more rare than we think. Over the past 10 seasons in the NFL, teams that had a lead after three quarters went on to win more than 80 percent of the time.
First, what "we think" is all that matters. If the fourth quarter of football games "feel" compelling, then it is compelling.

Second, it's a very, very good thing that a lead after three quarters means something. What should the comeback rate be? 20% ish sounds more or less perfect to me. Again, what's the problem that we're fixing?

Go with college football timing rules to give the offense some breathing room if you like. You have the three-point conversion, which helps. Figure out an onside kick rule that can yield a 25% ish recovery rate. Whatever. But of all things to manipulate, I don't think the clock should be on the list.

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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by Sounder » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:11 pm

If the clock stops on every play inside of two minutes in the half and in the game..... it'll take forever.....and defeat the purpose of keeping the game to two and a half hours or so. Here's what they can do and it was done before in Arena Football. When the team leading has the ball in the final two minutes.......they must make positive yards to keep the clock running No positive yards makes it stop.

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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by XFLInSTL » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:26 pm

In my opinion, this is a good thing. Nothing wrong with the kneel down, but this will be more exciting, I think.
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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by johnnyangryfuzzball » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:42 pm

Andibald wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:56 am
Wow! I think I was suggesting that for the final minute (and at one point suggested that for the whole game). At 5-6 seconds per play, that is around 20+ plays in the final 2 minutes of each half! I wonder if there will be a mercy rule...and I mean that for the audience...for the 4th quarter during a blowout.

Also, that may or may not prevent kneel downs as it is still a very safe play.
That was my thought precisely. It seems that this is yet another example of where the stated goal of the XFL wanting a shorter real-time game and the mechanisms are diametrically opposed to each other.

If shortening the game were the goal, I'd instead seriously consider allowing a complete waiver of the last minute or so if the clock can be run off with kneels. It may not be all that popular among "purists" (then again, purists probably don't care for outlaw leagues like the XFL) but the pro forma nature of the whole kneeling process is kind of a waste and people leave the stadium anyway.

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