The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

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MikeMitchell
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The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by MikeMitchell » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:45 am

https://twitter.com/TB_Times/status/114 ... 50688?s=20

This is an article today from The Tampa Bay Times, written by Thomas Bassinger. It goes over the forward pass rule behind the line of scrimmage. As well as the 3 point conversion and elimination of extra points.

The intriguing part in the article is Oliver Luck addressing the kneel down.
The Comeback Period”
In the NFL, the game clock stops with two minutes left in the second quarter, two minutes left in the fourth quarter, after an incomplete pass, when a player runs out of bounds or when a team calls a timeout. In the XFL, the clock will stop after every play during the final two minutes of each half.

“We didn’t want a team to be able to have three downs where they just kneel it and burn off 1:40,” Luck said. “A kneel-down — as a quarterback I loved it (he played for the Houston Oilers from 1982 to 1986) — but it’s also a nothing play.”

He calls the final two minutes “The Comeback Period” because we should see a bunch more drives than we’re used to. The goal, of course, is to not only increase the number of games that are decided in the final minutes but also hold the audience’s attention longer, no matter the actual probability of a comeback. After all, late-game comebacks are more rare than we think. Over the past 10 seasons in the NFL, teams that had a lead after three quarters went on to win more than 80 percent of the time.

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Andibald
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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by Andibald » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:56 am

MikeMitchell wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:45 am
https://twitter.com/TB_Times/status/114 ... 50688?s=20

This is an article today from The Tampa Bay Times, written by Thomas Bassinger. It goes over the forward pass rule behind the line of scrimmage. As well as the 3 point conversion and elimination of extra points.

The intriguing part in the article is Oliver Luck addressing the kneel down.
The Comeback Period”
In the NFL, the game clock stops with two minutes left in the second quarter, two minutes left in the fourth quarter, after an incomplete pass, when a player runs out of bounds or when a team calls a timeout. In the XFL, the clock will stop after every play during the final two minutes of each half.

“We didn’t want a team to be able to have three downs where they just kneel it and burn off 1:40,” Luck said. “A kneel-down — as a quarterback I loved it (he played for the Houston Oilers from 1982 to 1986) — but it’s also a nothing play.”

He calls the final two minutes “The Comeback Period” because we should see a bunch more drives than we’re used to. The goal, of course, is to not only increase the number of games that are decided in the final minutes but also hold the audience’s attention longer, no matter the actual probability of a comeback. After all, late-game comebacks are more rare than we think. Over the past 10 seasons in the NFL, teams that had a lead after three quarters went on to win more than 80 percent of the time.
Wow! I think I was suggesting that for the final minute (and at one point suggested that for the whole game). At 5-6 seconds per play, that is around 20+ plays in the final 2 minutes of each half! I wonder if there will be a mercy rule...and I mean that for the audience...for the 4th quarter during a blowout.

Also, that may or may not prevent kneel downs as it is still a very safe play.

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Andibald
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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by Andibald » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:02 am

A drop of any pass behind the line of scrimmage will be ruled an incomplete pass, not a fumble. The XFL wants to encourage coaches to try such plays, so by ruling drops behind the line of scrimmage as incompletions, it has reduced some of the potential risk.
I don't like this. Are fumbles going to be considered dead behind the LOS? One of the best parts of the rule could have been every ball behind the LOS is live and would eliminate "Tuck Rule" and "Empty Hand" questions. What about lateral pitches or option pitches? Sounds like both will be incomplete passes. If not... :shock:

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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by Tank55 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:04 am

I'm not on board. We already have a "comeback period" -- it's called the two minute drill, it's one of football's greatest features, and it's now been fundamentally altered. This is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. They could have just said when the half or game came be mathematically ended on consecutive kneel downs, the clock can just run.

Actually, that could solve the delay of game issue. If the play clock expires, it's an automatic loss of down, but game flow doesn't stop (unless it forces a turnover). A huge incentive to get the play off on time, no wasted time stopping the game to march off five yards, teams can't manipulate the rule to waste time, and it eliminates consecutive kneel downs.

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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by Tank55 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:07 am

Andibald wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:02 am
I don't like this. Are fumbles going to be considered dead behind the LOS? One of the best parts of the rule could have been every ball behind the LOS is live and would eliminate "Tuck Rule" and "Empty Hand" questions. What about lateral pitches or option pitches? Sounds like both will be incomplete passes. If not... :shock:
Pitches would have to be incomplete passes, right? (Just another reason Paul Johnson would dominate in the XFL) Fumbles probably not. The current NFL rules distinguish between fumbles that go forward and forward passes, so I would think that could extend to the XFL's new paradigm.

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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by MikeMitchell » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:20 am

I am absolutely for the elimination of the kneel down. To me, it’s a meaningless play that goes against the competitive nature of games. This is a reimagining that I am down with.

How you get there is the intriguing part. There are many sides to this. I have to see it in play.

There’s no doubt that this increases offensive plays and keeps teams alive in games. A team with a lead has to try and get first downs to keep the lead, and to keep the opposing offense off of the field. Football is a sport where there is a “cheese” mode, where you can manipulate the clock in your favor by not running any plays. There are some facets of other sports where clock milking is done like hockey, but not to the extent of how easy it is in football to accomplish.

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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by Andibald » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:37 am

Tank55 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:04 am
I'm not on board. We already have a "comeback period" -- it's called the two minute drill, it's one of football's greatest features, and it's now been fundamentally altered. This is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. They could have just said when the half or game came be mathematically ended on consecutive kneel downs, the clock can just run.

Actually, that could solve the delay of game issue. If the play clock expires, it's an automatic loss of down, but game flow doesn't stop (unless it forces a turnover). A huge incentive to get the play off on time, no wasted time stopping the game to march off five yards, teams can't manipulate the rule to waste time, and it eliminates consecutive kneel downs.
I like this as a general rule for delay of game. I don't like clock running with no action in an attempt to end the game, though.

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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by Andibald » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:39 am

Tank55 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:07 am
Andibald wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:02 am
I don't like this. Are fumbles going to be considered dead behind the LOS? One of the best parts of the rule could have been every ball behind the LOS is live and would eliminate "Tuck Rule" and "Empty Hand" questions. What about lateral pitches or option pitches? Sounds like both will be incomplete passes. If not... :shock:
Pitches would have to be incomplete passes, right? (Just another reason Paul Johnson would dominate in the XFL) Fumbles probably not. The current NFL rules distinguish between fumbles that go forward and forward passes, so I would think that could extend to the XFL's new paradigm.
I would think so but...? This rule is/was a great opportunity to simplify the rules. Every ball that hits the ground behind the LOS is LIVE.

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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by Tank55 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:53 am

I don't get the hate for the kneel down. Clock management is (or at least was) a key part of the game.

Random story: I used to play semi pro football. Just before halftime, the opposing team told the referee that they were going to kneel the ball; in turn, the referee told the defense so that we wouldn't go hard at their line. Instead, they fake the knee and throw a bomb that goes for like a 60-yard touchdown because our secondary wasn't ready. The referee felt terrible and said he'd never do that again.

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Re: The XFL looking to eliminate the kneel down with new clock rule

Post by Andibald » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:00 am

MikeMitchell wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:20 am
I am absolutely for the elimination of the kneel down. To me, it’s a meaningless play that goes against the competitive nature of games. This is a reimagining that I am down with.

How you get there is the intriguing part. There are many sides to this. I have to see it in play.

There’s no doubt that this increases offensive plays and keeps teams alive in games. A team with a lead has to try and get first downs to keep the lead, and to keep the opposing offense off of the field. Football is a sport where there is a “cheese” mode, where you can manipulate the clock in your favor by not running any plays. There are some facets of other sports where clock milking is done like hockey, but not to the extent of how easy it is in football to accomplish.
Thinking a bit more on this, I really don't think it will help much with the knee downs. For one, TO's in the final 2 minutes won't help with stopping the clock. Use them for strategy or rest but otherwise, use them before the 2 minute warning. In the NFL, the kneel downs start at a point where there is 40-45 seconds left per down available. That is adjusted based on TO's remaining. Basically speaking, if there is less than 2 minutes left, the defense has no TO's, and its 1st down, that's the game...kneel downs to follow.

What this rule will do, is transfer the kneel downs form the 2 minute warning to the final 15 seconds or less, of the game. Depending on the time remaining, the QB will delay the kneel, as we see at times now when there is slightly more that 40 seconds left per play remaining.

There is potential to at least make it seem better because of what the clock says when the kneeling starts.

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